Living Our Beliefs: Exploring Faith & Religion in Daily Life

Exploring Religious Freedom in America – Chris Stevenson

• Meli Solomon, the Talking with God Project • Season 4 • Episode 90

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Episode 90.   

Are you a museum goer? Are you interested in the history of religion in America? Is religious freedom in America important to you?  If you answered yes to any of those questions, today’s episode will speak to you. Chris Stevenson has been developing the National Museum of American Religion for 15 years. Currently a digital-first project, Chris and his team began the Religion in the American Experience podcast as a stepping-stone to exhibits. They are also talking about a traveling exhibit. The key questions are: What has America done to religion and what has religion done to America? 


Highlights: 

·       Religious freedom in America

·       the National Museum of American Religion project

·       Religion in the American Experience podcast

·       Smithsonian vs. private structure 

·       Mobile museum: religion's pandemic journey

·       Exploring positive lived religion


Bio:  

Chris has worked as a teacher, systems engineer, and consultant. He has a B.S. in applied physics and Masters degrees in education and agricultural engineering. His passion is buttressing civil society, and in 2000 he founded the non-profit Community Levee Association. After that he founded America’s Quilt of Faith, Faith2SelfGovern, then the National Museum of American Religion project. 


References:


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The Living Our Beliefs podcast is part of the Talking with God Project.

Chris Stevenson transcript 

Exploring Religious Freedom in America

 

 

Méli Solomon [00:00:04]:

Hello, and welcome to Living Our Beliefs, a home for open conversations with fellow Christians, Jews, and Muslims. Through personal stories and reflection, we explore how our religious traditions show up in daily life. I am your host, Meli Solomon. So glad you could join us. This podcast is part of my Talking with God Project. To learn more, check out the link in the show notes. Are you a museum goer? Are you interested in the history of religion in America? Is religious freedom in America important to you? If you answered yes to any of those questions, today's episode will speak to you. Chris Stevenson has been developing the National Museum of American Religion for fifteen years.

 

Méli Solomon [00:01:01]:

Currently a digital first project, Chris and his team began the Religion in the American Experience podcast as a stepping stone to exhibits. They are also talking about a traveling exhibit. The key questions underlying all of these endeavors are, what has America done to religion? And what has religion done to America? So let's turn to the conversation and learn more about his inspiration and answers. Hello, Chris. Welcome to my Living Our Beliefs podcast. I'm really pleased to have you on today.

 

Chris Stevenson [00:01:40]:

Thanks for having me.

 

Méli Solomon [00:01:41]:

I noticed in your bio that you didn't say anything about your religious identity. So I do wanna just clarify that. How do you identify yourself religiously?

 

Chris Stevenson [00:01:53]:

Sure. So I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and have been since I joined at age eight.

 

Méli Solomon [00:02:01]:

At age eight?

 

Chris Stevenson [00:02:02]:

At age eight.

 

Méli Solomon [00:02:03]:

Oh, that's interesting. Didn't see that coming.

 

Chris Stevenson [00:02:05]:

My parents raised me as a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and then I was baptized at eight. That is in this particular faith. The earliest age at one may formally join the church. That's in their official doctrine, age eight.

 

Méli Solomon [00:02:21]:

You were you were ready, set, raring to go.

 

Chris Stevenson [00:02:23]:

I was. I did it.

 

Méli Solomon [00:02:26]:

Okay. So in this conversation, Chris, we're going to talk about your National Museum of American Religion and attendant activities. There's a common distinction in the world of religion between religious studies, which is viewing religion from the outside doing analysis and comparison, and viewing it from a theological lens, which is from the inside, looking at essences and truth claims and practice. When you think about your museum, which of those two approaches do you take? Religious studies or theology?

 

Chris Stevenson [00:03:11]:

It is definitely the former. So this is an academic, nonideological, Smithsonian-esque effort to explore what religion has done to America and what America has done to religion. There's no theological backbone to it formally. I do think that there's interest out there for understanding the theology of religions in America. So I imagine there'll be a room where one can go and find out a little bit about any and all religions that are in The United States, but that's not our purpose. It's an academic historical analysis of what roles religion has have played in the American project from start to to present.

 

Méli Solomon [00:03:56]:

I would think that given a lifetime of affiliation with religion, active participation, it seems, that you would take a more experiential approach. Not that you would argue for a particular faith path, but that you would take a more experiential approach to the museum. So can you say more about why you've chosen this this academic viewpoint for the museum?

 

Chris Stevenson [00:04:30]:

Sure. So it comes, because of how the idea was formulated. So a friend of mine and I, both religious people and active in our faiths, were doing some work on the side from our regular day jobs regarding religion and its current use in the public square. So we were concerned about how religion was being and should be used to buttress the American project in general terms. And neither of us are historians. So for us, it was a discovery, and it was that religion had always had this very large influence on American history, not just in the present where we were working, but since the beginning. It is a bright thread woven throughout American history. And when we made that discovery, I thought back to growing up in DC.

 

Chris Stevenson [00:05:24]:

So I lived I grew up in Northern Virginia. My dad worked on the National Mall. He worked for the Department of Agriculture in its headquarters building, which is on the National Mall right near the Washington Monument just south across the mall from the American History Museum. And so I spent a lot of time in the Smithsonian's and developed at that time when I was in middle school, high school, a deep respect for the American project by participating in in the Smithsonian's exhibits and programming and developed a real love for America, its progress, and promise, And never thinking that it had been perfect, but there was something there that was special. So when I made this discovery decades later, I thought back to my experience in the Smithsonians, and I didn't remember religion being featured in any way commensurate with what we had discovered its role has always been. We also thought, well, this is also the case for our history classes in middle and high school. And there are reasons that this is the case. I mean, it's a difficult story to tell.

 

Chris Stevenson [00:06:25]:

There's church state relations when you talk about Smithsonian and public schools. So we weren't necessarily critical of the state of affairs, but we we confirmed that this is this was true. For us, the revelation was, well, Americans then don't know who we really are. And if that's the case, so there's this big slice of the historical pie missing in American minds. They don't know what religion has done, nor do they know what we've done to religion. That's super important because what we've done to religion is the religious freedom framework in the constitution, article six, and the first amendment religion clauses. So that puts America at risk to perpetuate itself into the future, and it also puts religious freedom at risk because we have a growing secular group in the country, diminishing church roles, extreme politicization of religion and religious freedom. So the reason why we the museum doesn't have this theological approach is from that formulation of the idea.

 

Chris Stevenson [00:07:23]:

We said we need to build a museum that fills in this historical gap, and so it couldn't be a religious or a religiously affiliated organ institution. It had to be a Smithsonian-esque academic, non ideological, give us the facts of the historical record enterprise.

 

Méli Solomon [00:07:39]:

So the hope for the museum is what? That people will understand the role of religion in American history, the role of religion in America today? Is there kind of a kind of a museum equivalent to the Harvard University Pluralism Project? Is is that part of the the tack you're taking? I hear you talk about the first amendment. Is it more kind of in the public sphere, how religion and government interact?

 

Chris Stevenson [00:08:15]:

So by the way, Diana Eck was one of our founding board members. Because of the Pluralism Project, people pointed her out to us, and so she was supportive for many years and then had to step down several years ago. So this, I think, is a good way to answer your question. What is the value proposition of this museum? It is so that people who experience the museum's exhibits and programming will come away with a deeper comprehension of and commitment to the idea of religious freedom as contained in the constitution. This was not part of the original outlook or purpose of the museum, but we went through a museum design process. And as part of that process, the museum experts professionals said you need to draw a line in the sand. You have to have something you are championing, and it can't just be religion in America. In in the twenty first century, museums don't exist with that model.

 

Chris Stevenson [00:09:11]:

After deep discussion, we landed on, well, religious freedom, this idea that is enshrined in the constitution is not perfect, but it sure answered a very bloody question in world history, religious state violence. We've provided an answer that's been very successful and has been promulgated throughout the world. It could be considered the essence of the American experiment itself, and at least it's one of our greatest innovations and exports. So that is what we decided to do, focus the value proposition on people's understanding of and commitment to this very American, very unique, and very world changing framework in the constitution, which we call religious freedom. And and this, we believe, should be what people say when they come out of the museum, whether they're super believers or atheists. Their religious freedom is important, not just important, but necessary for all people, and it has outsized influence on the American project itself and its projected success into the twenty first century.

 

Méli Solomon [00:10:18]:

I appreciate the need to have more focus to the project, and it can be challenging. So, clearly, you got some good advice and and wonderful to hear that Diane Eck was a part of it and support her early on.

 

Chris Stevenson [00:10:32]:

She was super helpful.

 

Méli Solomon [00:10:34]:

When you think about religious freedom, what does that mean for you?

 

Chris Stevenson [00:10:39]:

So I've been at this now fifteen years, and I would simply say it's the religious freedom framework in the constitution. Article six, no oath of office or no religious test for office, and then the first amendment religion clauses. So when religious freedom means those three things for me at the most foundational level, that's what I would say. And and and that wasn't how I would say it before this project, but that is definitely how I see it and how I would I would express it to anybody who asked because it's so undiluted and so rooted in a document, and there's no editorializing by me. This is religious freedom. You can read it. That's what it is.

 

Méli Solomon [00:11:23]:

Mhmm. What I'm wondering about, Chris, is do you think that people feel religious freedom in America today?

 

Chris Stevenson [00:11:33]:

I do. In general, yes. Maybe I should add varying degrees. Maybe some people feel less, but I would guess that most people would say, in general, they have religious freedom. If they got follow-up questions asked, it may turn out that there's some concern here and there for their exercise or for establishment. But I think there's a general sense that, yes, we do.

 

Méli Solomon [00:11:58]:

Okay. So you're seeing that some people have more, some people have less. Who do you think has more and who do you think has less?

 

Chris Stevenson [00:12:05]:

I I think minority religions have always felt like they're at some risk and that they need to actively carve out their religious freedom. And these are general terms. Right? But but I'm just sort of speaking in in these general terms and without going in into specifics, and that majority religions haven't had to necessarily worry about it as much.

 

Méli Solomon [00:12:28]:

So as a member of the LDS church, do you count yourself as part of the majority or part of the minority?

 

Chris Stevenson [00:12:38]:

Minority.

 

Méli Solomon [00:12:39]:

Is the LDS church Christian?

 

Chris Stevenson [00:12:42]:

Yes.

 

Méli Solomon [00:12:42]:

Yeah. So that that's interesting that you see yourself as part of the minority.

 

Chris Stevenson [00:12:48]:

Mostly, I would say because in reference to what you just asked, are we Christian, that many, many Christians do not believe we are Christian. So there's that controversy, for some. I mean, it's not a controversy for me or any adherence of the church who know its doctrine, but those on the outside will say that. And so that's why I consider myself a minority religion.

 

Méli Solomon [00:13:12]:

Yeah. There there is a dichotomy there that you see yourselves as Christian and other Christians don't see you as Christian. So, yeah, you're kind of in and and out at at the same time. It's kind of an awkward position.

 

Chris Stevenson [00:13:26]:

Right. Right.

 

Méli Solomon [00:13:27]:

Who's the intended audience for this museum?

 

Chris Stevenson [00:13:30]:

National Mall visitors. So families with small children.

 

Méli Solomon [00:13:34]:

Why them?

 

Chris Stevenson [00:13:35]:

Because we imagined ourselves originally as a Smithsonian. I don't know if I shared that story on this podcast, but we originally wanted to be, and we started petitioning congress to be a Smithsonian museum on the mall. Their audience is families with young children, and we want to continue that because it the story belongs in their space. It's a very Americana story that any and all Americans should know.

 

Méli Solomon [00:14:03]:

So how's that going? You said you petitioned the Smithsonian. It sounds like that's some big process.

 

Chris Stevenson [00:14:09]:

It is. We started out wanting to be a Smithsonian. A few months into it or maybe a year plus or minus, we decided to go private because we felt like it would be difficult because of the subject matter for the Smithsonian to tell the story accurately because of church state issues, four year administration cycles, and the politicization of religion and religious freedom. So we left that, although we have reinstated those discussions, that effort, because it turns out to be a museum in the nation's capital, a private museum where you have to require, generally, an entrance fee. It's sort of a death sentence for you because the Smithsonian's are so popular and so world class. Why would a family with young children want to pay to go to a museum when they can go to free ones up and down the mall? So that is why we're keeping those discussions open with one office in particular right now on Capitol Hill just in case we want to pursue that. But I I still do think it would be really difficult for them to tell the story accurately and compellingly, so I'd rather be private.

 

Méli Solomon [00:15:18]:

Well, there's a dilemma for you.

 

Chris Stevenson [00:15:20]:

There is, but it's okay. We're marching down the path of private, but keeping those relationships healthy, on Capitol Hill.

 

Méli Solomon [00:15:28]:

Right. You describe the museum as a digital first museum. What what does that mean?

 

Chris Stevenson [00:15:35]:

That simply means we exist as a museum, but we're not brick and mortar yet, And all of our exhibits and programming can be found online either at our website, nmar.org, or on our YouTube channel.

 

Méli Solomon [00:15:50]:

And do you have a a timeline for the brick and mortar?

 

Chris Stevenson [00:15:55]:

Our timeline right now is focused on 2025 and 2026, 2026 being America's Semiquincentennial. So all of our projects right now are focused on that year to come online in that year as we celebrate America's two hundred and fiftieth. We, of course, will be telling the story of what roles religion played in that, and one of our projects is an actual physical exhibit. It's a traveling exhibit about religious freedom history and religious architecture. That will be our first major physical exhibit. It'll be traveling, so temporary. So our timeline extends through 2026, and we hope that that traveling exhibit and the other projects we're involved with for that year will be a step function to the next plateau of establishing a foothold in DC. So that's about as far as our timeline goes.

 

Chris Stevenson [00:16:45]:

This is because we don't have a wealthy financial backer. So we're sort of doing this as we go. We felt like we didn't want to wait when we started for brick and mortar before we made content because the issues are too important to wait. From the very beginning, we've done content, and at the same time, that making of content is also our fundraising activity. Right? The more people see things we are doing, the more interest will spark, and, hopefully, money will generate. So

 

Méli Solomon [00:17:15]:

Sure. And I think a traveling exhibit is is a terrific idea. Are there folks you're talking with who were in the traveling museum exhibit world that are kind of helping you along with this?

 

Chris Stevenson [00:17:29]:

We've started those discussions with people who are trying to help us find spaces in LA, Salt Lake City, and DC. We haven't established any relationships with, traveling exhibits yet, but that's a great idea.

 

Méli Solomon [00:17:46]:

There are people who do this.

 

Chris Stevenson [00:17:47]:

There there are.

 

Méli Solomon [00:17:49]:

Okay. So the museum traveling exhibit or eventual ongoing brick and mortar building, How do you see this as different from other museums about religion?

 

Chris Stevenson [00:18:04]:

Well, I haven't seen a museum about religion that has our mission, purpose, or value proposition or our scope. The Museum of the Bible, for example, in Washington, DC, that's a religious theme museum. It has a totally different mission and purpose. We're in contact with a lot of religious historical societies, religious theme museums, and and the scope is just not the same nor is the mission and purpose. These are great places, and we have relationships with these organizations because we want them to see us as a way to get their story out, and we want to be able to access their expertise and their archives and their collections for various exhibits.

 

Méli Solomon [00:18:44]:

In preparing for this conversation, I did some, noodling around on the Internet. There are museums about the bible. There are museums about specific communities, and there's a whole group of creationist museums. And then the fourth group was museums about art from various communities. And I've been to a lot of museums in my life, and and this was a was a really interesting spectrum of museums. Are those four groupings the way you see it as well, or have I missed something or misrepresented something?

 

Chris Stevenson [00:19:21]:

No. That's how we've seen it. That's the landscape that has emerged from our noodling around ourselves and and trying to figure out what's what's out there. There's a lot of money now going into telling religious stories in existing museums, and that's a positive development. But still, there's no museum that tells the entirety of the story with religious freedom as an innate public good as its value proposition. So we still feel that this museum is is needed and necessary.

 

Méli Solomon [00:19:52]:

Do you have any sense of what the reaction might be? Because this is a really unique this is a completely unique, museum idea.

 

Chris Stevenson [00:20:03]:

People are super interested in it. Once they get over their concern that it is an ideological entity, that it has a particular story to tell or a particular lens they want to use to look at the historical record that reveals a particular or emphasizes a particular story, and that's the big concern. They generally think it's something that it's not. They they generally think it's trying to say that America is a Christian nation, that everything in America is very polarized and politicized, including religion. We are not. And so the reaction to the museum is, why are you doing this? Right? What's the purpose? So we're in the center. And in today's America, that's a challenging place to be. The pull is towards the edges, but we don't wanna be involved in a project that further fractures the American experiment, especially in the name of religion.

 

Chris Stevenson [00:20:56]:

So we're gonna do it right, or we won't do it. We'll get there. There are people out there who understand religion and society and religious freedom in ways that resonate with the museum, and we'll we'll find them.

 

Méli Solomon [00:21:08]:

Yeah. The timing is interesting. I hadn't realized you'd been working on this for fifteen years. So now I'm trying to think about, you know, what's happened over the last fifteen years. But on the other hand, as dicey as it may seem, because of I completely agree with you about the polarization in America today. It really has gotten terrible. But by the same token, because so many of us see it as such a problem, I'm actually seeing more energy, more interest, and effort to find the middle to bring people together. Let's understand each other more.

 

Méli Solomon [00:21:50]:

Let's find some common ground not to try to be the same, but to recognize that the extremism and the polarization is tearing us apart and is is really not helpful for the American project.

 

Chris Stevenson [00:22:07]:

Yes. The polarization has generated interest in finding a better way. It it's a difficult landscape right now. American destiny is somewhat clouded and obscured right now, and religion has been part of that, unfortunately. And so it's a challenging subject matter, but we still believe that religious freedom as defined in the constitution is the essence of the American project. So we're committed to the museum that can help elevate that as part of the solution.

 

Méli Solomon [00:22:38]:

So as we're talking about this, Chris, there are two aspects that I'm now wondering whether the museum will address. One is religious oppression, and the other is this increased secularization, the increase of what's called the nuns, the n o n e s, people who do not affiliate with any religious tradition. Will those be part of the project?

 

Chris Stevenson [00:23:04]:

Absolutely. As I understand the American story, those are the latter is a new phenomenon, but it's part of its the story, and it will be featured. And the former is a thread in the tapestry that we'll have to address. Absolutely.

 

Méli Solomon [00:23:19]:

Good. I'm glad to hear that. I think I think that enriches the the museum as a whole.

 

Chris Stevenson [00:23:26]:

Sure. We will often say religion has been one of the most influential factors in the American story, and then I'll qualify it by saying for good and ill. The historical record is clear religiously motivated people. Religions have done wonderful, beautiful society building and individual building things, and they've also done things that are not that. And it just is what it is, and that will be part of the museum.

 

Méli Solomon [00:23:52]:

One of the ways that we overlap is that part of your museum project is is a podcast, the religion in the American experience podcast.

 

Chris Stevenson [00:24:02]:

Yes.

 

Méli Solomon [00:24:03]:

From what I can tell, it's actually the most visible aspect of the museum so far. Is that is that correct?

 

Chris Stevenson [00:24:13]:

I would agree. We do it consistently. We've done it since 2020. And, yes, so I would agree with that.

 

Méli Solomon [00:24:21]:

Okay. And what inspired you to start that?

 

Chris Stevenson [00:24:25]:

That's a funny story. So in 2020, we were dealing with the pandemic, a really hotly contested presidential election, the racial reckoning after George Floyd's murder. And I suggested to the museum board that we buy a RV, emblazoned on it National Museum of American Religion, and tour the country interviewing people and asking them, how does religion figure into your engagement with those three big things going on. I was gonna take my family. We're gonna just go on a road trip. There was the issue of traveling and interviewing during the pandemic. It was expensive. So from that, though, the board decided, let's whittle it down.

 

Chris Stevenson [00:25:13]:

Let's do a podcast. That's a little bit easier. Podcasts are things. Let's get on board. You can do it from home. So that's why we started the podcast, and it's actually become a great thing for us because all the episodes are super representative of what the museum is all about. It's talking about how religion has played roles in capitalism, in the prison system, and it's everything. And so it's been great for that reason.

 

Chris Stevenson [00:25:41]:

That's the story.

 

Méli Solomon [00:25:42]:

Has the podcast altered the vision of the museum?

 

Chris Stevenson [00:25:49]:

No. It really hasn't altered it. It just fit right into it. It's just a very natural fit for the museum in its subject matter.

 

Méli Solomon [00:25:57]:

Your initial idea of a road trip is has actually come back around in the idea of a traveling exhibit.

 

Chris Stevenson [00:26:04]:

Yeah. And we've thought about a traveling exhibit for a long time because they're often used as ways to generate interest, right, and and gather stakeholders, in the museum world or public education world. So, yeah, in in some ways, it's come back.

 

Méli Solomon [00:26:19]:

I noticed in preparing for our conversation that you now have a kind of a subseries within the podcast focused on lived religion. So can you say more about that?

 

Chris Stevenson [00:26:32]:

Yeah. So when our first podcast or first couple came out, I had a good friend who was listening, and and she told me there's a little bit of a negative edge to these. My understanding of the museum, that that's not really your purpose. And I thought about that a little bit and and did some thinking and and research, and I would agree that human nature generally looks to try to find the issues and the problems and the failures. And academics are also doing that. I mean, not not not with animosity. Some maybe. But but, generally, I mean, they're just doing their job.

 

Chris Stevenson [00:27:04]:

And so sometimes, yes, the academic look at religion's influence can be somewhat negative. There can be that feel, but we can't leave academics. You know, they are the people that look at the historical records. We gotta trust them to do their job, and do it well and not just look at negative stories and and things like that. So we couldn't leave that, and we can balance. It's a it's a mix, but I got her point, and she's a a valued adviser. And so we decided to include also, but the lens of lived religion because it's a needed lens. It's a real lens, and I think we'd be wrong to not use it.

 

Chris Stevenson [00:27:41]:

It also helped answer her concern because the lived religion lens is generally a positive one. Unless you are interviewing someone who has had, like, the most terrific experience with the religion, and they're gonna talk about it, which that can happen, and it has happened. Right? There but but I I just sort of pick people now randomly throughout the country and say, do you have a religious history? And I'd like to interview about it. And and they're just sort of is a positive balance. It's a positive it's a it's a weight on the positive side of the scale, I guess. That's how it came about. So I think it's a great thing, important for us to do that and to always do that and have that in the museum as well, lived religion.

 

Méli Solomon [00:28:25]:

Yeah. I obviously, given given what I do, I I agree with that and support it. I'm assuming, but I'm very careful with my assumptions that when you're looking at this lived religion subseries, that you are speaking with people who are currently active within a religion.

 

Chris Stevenson [00:28:47]:

Yes. I mean, we focused more on their history, like, what religion did to them in the past, and we don't focus a lot about what they're doing right now. But and then we focus on their parents and their grandparents. But it is these are people who are active in their faith right now.

 

Méli Solomon [00:29:03]:

So that brings me back around to the question of, will the museum include the nuns. Right? People who have dropped affiliation or or perhaps never had it to begin with. That I understand your focus, and I and I hear it when I listen to your podcast that the focus on the life history, you know, really marching through from childhood up through up through today. But I could see a place for talking with somebody who was raised in something and no longer does it as part of that lived religion because that fits in with your inclusion of the nuns, at least some aspect of the nuns in the museum. But that doesn't sound like something you're really interested in doing, which is fair enough. I'm just curious.

 

Chris Stevenson [00:29:56]:

But you mentioning that, I think we would be interested because they have a religious history. Right? Often. Some don't. And so those that don't, we wouldn't wanna talk to. But but people who have a religious history and left, that would be a great podcast. I hadn't really thought about it, but I'm intrigued. I think that would be very interesting.

 

Méli Solomon [00:30:15]:

Yeah. And I'd be interested in hearing that conversation.

 

Chris Stevenson [00:30:18]:

Yeah. Yeah. And when I say the nones need to be included, the nones need to be included because it's a story of religion in America, and they need to feel like this is a place for them to go. So that's what I mean by included, which which I think you understood, but that's sort of a a more detailed description of when I say they need to be included. Just like atheists, they need to be included. We have an atheist on our board of advisers, and I maybe should interview her for a podcast series. That's a great topic. It's a great thing to bring up, so I appreciate that.

 

Méli Solomon [00:30:49]:

Yeah. Sure. Part of why it's in my mind is because I've been asked that.

 

Chris Stevenson [00:30:54]:

I do think that for your podcast, someone who's not practicing doesn't make sense, right, because of your focus. But for ours, we're mostly about history. I don't spend much time talking about what religion does to them right now. I talk about what has it done to you in the past and your parents and your grandparents. They fit very well into that. They would have a different flavor, right, because they have left, and they'll tell that story from that perspective, which will be unique. So it's a great idea.

 

Méli Solomon [00:31:23]:

Okay. Well, stay tuned.

 

Chris Stevenson [00:31:24]:

Alright.

 

Méli Solomon [00:31:25]:

I have just a couple of more questions, Chris. One of the things you said to me when we spoke out at BYU in October was that you have made a conscious decision to leave your own personal faith out of the museum. Right? And we've touched on that a bit in this conversation that it's an academic thing. You want, you know, all to be included, and it's it's a religious studies lens, not a theological lens with an agenda. But I'm just hard pressed to believe that your own personal religion is not anywhere in the picture. This is what I wonder about is is how do you say, okay. Well, I'm faithful to my path. I'm engaged in my religion.

 

Méli Solomon [00:32:14]:

It's important to me, and partly, it's inspired this whole museum. And yet when I go to work, I'm leaving it outside the door. Am I understanding your your stance accurately?

 

Chris Stevenson [00:32:27]:

Well, maybe this is multifaceted. I mean, certainly, as a as a faithful member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, I use my religion in all aspects of my life. So when I go to work, I continue my religious walk. Right? That could mean silent prayers when there's a difficult decision. Right? I think about promises I made to God during the day when I'm at work. I mean, they're just part of me. So I can't divorce those things, and I'm not when I go to work. But I do have to make a conscious effort to not let any of my religion explicitly be part of my professional work in the on the museum.

 

Chris Stevenson [00:33:12]:

Maybe this is a ham fisted way to describe it, but I'll try. I don't talk about with the board or with an adviser I'm talking to or with someone I'm engaged with on an exhibit. I won't say God is directing me to use you as the exhibit designer. So in our in our tradition, we believe in the holy ghost. Okay? The third member of the godhead. He helps us by giving us inspiration, let's say. Right? I wouldn't say to somebody on the board, let's say, well, the holy ghost is moving me to do this exhibit. Am I differentiating? Am I helping explain what I mean when I say I leave it? I it can't be part of my professional work by those examples, or has that just confused you?

 

Méli Solomon [00:34:01]:

No. But what I find so interesting in your answer, Chris, is actually how slowly you answered it. You really were clearly thinking. This was a difficult question. So I really appreciate your efforts, talk about efforts, your efforts to make this distinction between maintaining your personal faith, just clearly important to you and I respect, versus making a public declaration of your faith at work.

 

Chris Stevenson [00:34:35]:

Right.

 

Méli Solomon [00:34:36]:

And I think that is an important distinction, and I think your examples are fine. Saying a prayer at the beginning of a meeting, for instance, is something that some communities do as an expression of their faith, as their group faith. So I was on the board of a of a synagogue, and we decided to say a prayer at the beginning of the board meeting, which was completely appropriate for that situation.

 

Chris Stevenson [00:35:07]:

Right.

 

Méli Solomon [00:35:08]:

It would not be appropriate if you're taking an academic religious studies, you know, very open door approach to the museum because then you're really bringing theology into the situation. And likewise, you talk about, well, the the holy spirit guided me towards this, whatever, would be bringing your own personal faith beliefs into the conversation and could really cause a lot of problems. So Yeah. I think it's good. But I think the whole faith at work or workplace spirituality, these are two terms that have been used, for that. I think the question is often, how much of yourself are you bringing to work? Whether you're religious or atheist or whatever of a particular culture, it doesn't really matter. It's not just about religion. It's it's how much of yourself are you bringing, and how were you expressing that on the job.

 

Méli Solomon [00:36:07]:

So that's why I bring it up.

 

Chris Stevenson [00:36:10]:

It's a great question, and I think about it all the time. And because the the museum is a is a special case, I believe. It if we want it to be what we want it to be, we I'm the same religious person, but I can't behave in this profession, in this project in the way I would religiously in other work. I worked for a defense contractor, and we worked for the Department of Homeland Security Advanced Research Project Agency. I would be very comfortable saying to my boss, I felt the spirit moved me to do I whatever whatever religious things are happening to me, I feel in every space motivated to talk about my religious behavior and how it's affecting me on the job except for this space because this space is is so unique. And if I do that, it changes the flavor, and it's gonna fracture the American experiment and not help it. And so I've got to, you know, adhere to that rule where it'll become something that it is not designed to be, and it will be harmful and not helpful.

 

Méli Solomon [00:37:11]:

Yeah. In short, you need to keep it to yourself.

 

Chris Stevenson [00:37:14]:

In this professional task, I do. I feel stronger than I do.

 

Méli Solomon [00:37:19]:

Yeah. Fair enough. Okay. So in closing, Chris, how can people learn more about the museum and your work?

 

Chris Stevenson [00:37:29]:

They can go to our website, which is nmar.org, and they can sign up for the newsletter. We put out a newsletter monthly that keeps everybody apprised of progress and work. They can, of course, become financial sponsors. There's a contribute button, many buttons on the website, and they can go to our YouTube page. Just Google National Museum of American Religion YouTube, and you'll find our page, and that's what where all of our programming is. And lastly, they can follow our podcast, religion and the American experience. That's on all the major podcast broadcasting channels, and that would be fantastic.

 

Méli Solomon [00:38:10]:

Great. Well, I'll make sure to put, all of those links in the show notes and encourage people to listen and follow and contribute.

 

Chris Stevenson [00:38:18]:

Okay. Thank you.

 

Méli Solomon [00:38:20]:

Well, Chris, this has been a wonderful conversation. Thank you so much for coming on my Living Our Beliefs podcast. I really appreciate it.

 

Chris Stevenson [00:38:28]:

You're welcome. It was great to be here. Thank you for inviting me.

 

Méli Solomon [00:38:34]:

Thank you for listening. This podcast is an outgrowth of my Talking with God Project. If you'd like to learn more about that project, a link to the website is in the show notes. Thanks so much for tuning in. Till next time. Bye bye.