Ancient Prayers: Meaningless or Comforting? – Will Berry

Episode 82. 
'Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name'. These opening words of the Lord’s Prayer from the Christian tradition, provide a salve for Will Berry when times are hard, and he doesn’t have words. As a paramedic for 14 years, these moments are not infrequent.   

Today’s episode is the second half of our conversation, where we talk about God, prayer, and the power of using ancient words. 

Highlights:
00:00 God's vastness complements intimate personal presence.

04:56 The profound impact of the Church community and teachings.

08:53 Pragmatic preaching that blends scripture and life.

10:02 Ancient traditions need modern practical relevance.

15:34 Kneeling in prayer brings powerful surrender.

18:02 Reflecting on humanity prevents emotional detachment.

21:01 Bring heavenly beauty and power to earth.


Bio:
Will Berry has been in EMS for 14 years.  He currently works as a flight paramedic in North Carolina, but has spent the majority of his career as a paramedic on an ambulance responding to 911 calls in a busy city. He has been a Christian since a young age and is heavily influenced by his faith and spiritual journey. He is married and is the father to two young girls. In addition to working in EMS he has been a whitewater rafting guide, ski patroller, and wilderness guide in the rocky mountains.

Social Media links for Will:
Instagram – @emscast
EMSCast podcast (co-hosted with Ross Orpet)


Social Media links for Méli:
Website – Talking with God Project
LinkedIn – Meli Solomon
Facebook – Meli Solomon


Transcript on Buzzsprout


Follow the podcast!
The Living Our Beliefs podcast offers a place to learn about other religions and faith practices. When you hear about how observant Christians, Jews and Muslims live their faith, new ideas and questions arise:  Is your way similar or different?  Is there an idea or practice that you want to explore?  Understanding how other people live opens your mind and heart to new people you meet. 

Comments?  Questions? Email  Méli at – info@talkingwithgodproject.org
 

The Living Our Beliefs podcast is part of the Talking with God Project – https://www.talkingwithgodproject.org/

Transcript

Ancient Prayers: Meaningless or Comforting?

Will Berry, Part Two

Meli  [00:00:05]:

Hello, and welcome to Living Our Beliefs, a home for open conversations with fellow Christians, Jews, and Muslims. Through personal stories and reflection, we explore how our religious traditions show up in daily life. I am your host, Meli Solomon. So glad you could join us. This podcast is part of my Talking with God Project. To learn more, check out the link in the show notes. Our father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name. These words of the Lord's prayer from the Christian tradition provide a salve for Will Barry when times are hard and he doesn't have words.

Meli  [00:00:50]:

As a paramedic for 14 years, these moments are not infrequent. Today's episode number 82 is the second half of our conversation where we talk about God, prayer, and the power of using ancient words. And now, let's return to our conversation. In talking about God and the power of god, the light of god, we're talking about an entity. And I hesitate to say this because I don't want to personify God, but we're talking about a force that is maybe all powerful depending on your view and is absolutely amorphous. What I'm wondering about, Will, is does that scale and intangibility help you in these situations or not?

Will Berry [00:01:50]:

That's a good question. I think that that way of viewing god can be very impersonal and very distant feeling. And I think when you're in a really hard circumstance, that's sometimes not comforting. But, also, I do find some comfort in it, and I can only make it make sense through visual, perhaps. I was a backpacking guide for a while in the mountains of Colorado, and, I was leading a trip. We're in the literally the heart of the Rocky Mountains, 14,000 foot peaks, just really awe inspiring terrain. We sent all the guests out for a solo time, so they got a few hours just to be out alone. And somebody came back with this tiny little flower.

Will Berry [00:02:38]:

They had to hike way up into this terrain feature, and there was this lone flower right there. And they said, no one probably even knows this flower exists, but I do. And God made these mountains and the sky and this thing that is so big and vast and this tiny little flower. Their belief was like, he may also made this beautiful little flower and placed it right here where, potentially, like, nobody would ever see it because it's beautiful and good. Where that connects for me is, like, God is bigger than our circumstance. He's bigger than these horrible things that are happening. And though that can feel distant and impersonal, my personal belief is he's also intimately right there with us, and there's mystery there that is hard to fully understand. If you're in the midst of a struggle and it's, like, all you can think about let's just use a sports analogy.

Will Berry [00:03:37]:

Like, it's the Q4. It's a big game, and you're like, man. We're trying to score the extra points to win the game, and you forget that there's this whole other world around you. You can be stuck in this struggle that's happening, and it it means a lot to you and it's really powerful and it matters, but there's also such a bigger picture and a bigger story at play all around you. Personally, I find comfort in that because this is bigger than me. There's a bigger story. There's a bigger journey happening, and I'm not responsible for owning and making sense of every little teeny tiny thing.

Meli  [00:04:14]:

Thankfully. Right?

Will Berry [00:04:16]:

Yeah.

Meli  [00:04:17]:

Okay. So I'd like to pivot our focus just a bit to that bigger picture. Not the bigger picture of God, but the bigger picture of your life and what's supporting you. What are you doing, or what's happening maybe in services that is feeding you on the job? Are there daily practices or weekly or scripture passages? You know? And, again, to go back to this furniture question, what is the practice furniture in your life that then, when you're in this crazy situation on the job, come in and kind of support you?

Will Berry [00:04:56]:

I rely heavily on certain disciplines, and I ebb and flow with different ones. So going to church on Sunday is incredibly impactful for me personally, in a in a multitude of ways. First, I think it's just being around a community of people that feels loving and supportive, and they're they're seeking study and information and all the same things as me. There's a community there. We all put our wrestles and struggles aside for a couple hours on Sunday, and we come together and we focus on something bigger. And so that discipline is really powerful for me. Within the church service, the teaching is always powerful for me too because it it allows me to feel like I'm growing and learning in this crazy spiritual journey that I'm on and then seek, applications for what I'm learning in in the world around me and in life. I ebb and flow, just being honest, with, like, the amount I read the Bible.

Will Berry [00:05:56]:

I go through fits and spurts. Sometimes, it's incredibly impactful for me, and it feels like the things I'm reading in the Bible were written just for me. Those moments are powerful. Sometimes it feels a little more like a discipline that I need to just do this, like eating my vegetables. And then, prayer, I think, has been really important for me. I went through a long period of time where, as I would go to work, I would just no music, no nothing, just silence. I would commute to work both on a bicycle for a long time and then also in a car. I tried to have silence, and I think that silence with some intentional thought and I I call it prayer.

Will Berry [00:06:42]:

I mean, I talk to myself. I talk to God. I ask questions out loud. I kinda, like, am still and listen for what stirs within me. And sometimes I get nothing in response, but I think it's okay to let a question hang and linger. Beyond all that, I think just a strong community and support structure and and listening to those around me. The people that know me best have also given me some of the hardest advice about different parts of my life and and trusting that it's all coming from love and and a good place. So I think the the community is a is a really continuous thread through all of it, and the the disciplines are are helpful too.

Will Berry [00:07:30]:

It's like you have to go to work. So there's discipline there. So offsetting that with disciplines that you get to choose, I think, is helpful.

Meli  [00:07:40]:

I love this. Again, a terrific phrase. Disciplines that you choose. I don't know anybody for whom discipline is always a joyful thing that they just can't wait to do. You know? Even if you say, love to go to the gym, there are bound to be days when you're really not in the mood. You're tired. You're whatever. You have something else on the mind, and you don't wanna do it.

Meli  [00:08:05]:

So this is a great list. So what I'm hearing is weekly church services, the teaching in the service. I'm gonna put a pin in that and come back. Reading scripture ebbs and flows. Okay? Prayer or silence, talking to God during your commute, and having this regular strong community both within the church, but I imagine elsewhere. Right? You're married. You have friends. You have colleagues.

Meli  [00:08:30]:

You know, all of that. I'm guessing is when you say community, you mean all of that.

Will Berry [00:08:36]:

All the above. Yes.

Meli  [00:08:37]:

So I wanna hear more about when you say teaching in the service because your service is different than my service. So I wanna make sure I understand what that means, and I also wanna hear more about or talk more about prayer and what that looks like.

Will Berry [00:08:53]:

Yeah. We've been drawn to church traditions where the the person preaching, they pick a topic or a scripture or both, and they they try to mesh what do we see in our daily life, what do we believe that the Bible slash scripture teach us about this? And then how can we blend those things to inform ourselves to leave here as a better person? And so I think that style of teaching, you know, or sermon or preaching is really impactful for me. I I guess maybe as I talk to you, I'm learning. I'm just a really pragmatic person. So the idea of I'm bringing stuff from my week here, and you're helping me reconcile some of it, and then I'm gonna leave here feeling better than I came in.

Meli  [00:09:48]:

It's interesting. You you say, oh, jeez. I am realizing I'm really just a pragmatic person. I would say, isn't that what most of us who are on a faith tradition and part of a religious community? That is what we're wanting.

Will Berry [00:10:02]:

True.

Meli  [00:10:02]:

Right? I mean, I have to say, even I, who goes pretty much every Saturday to synagogue, and I'm engaged and I study and I'm working on my Hebrew and all this, if it doesn't impact my life, my daily life in a positive way, if I can't draw something out of that ancient tradition, right, this is one of the challenges, is that we're in 2024, and we're drawing from an ancient tradition. If I can't make that or if I can't get help to make that leap and have something that applies to my daily life, then what the heck am I doing? Why am I spending all this time and money and effort to what? To understanding that's abstract and irrelevant to daily life? Really. So I think I think you have no apologies to make. I think the pragmatic is where most people land.

Will Berry [00:10:56]:

That's great. Yeah. I love that. 

Meli  [00:10:59]:

So I'm letting you off the hook.

Will Berry [00:11:00]:

Thank you.

Meli  [00:11:01]:

Sure. This other element I wanted to touch on is prayer. So you talked about silence, talking to God, and maybe you get an answer, maybe you don't. When you're doing this, what does this look like? Do you have a certain process or words? Are there things from your tradition, or are you just making up your own words? What does this look like?

Will Berry [00:11:24]:

Good question. A lot of different things. The story I kinda just told you of my work commute, So in that setting, sometimes I'm driving or riding my bike, and there's no music going, no podcast going, and I'm just talking out loud. And I think when I'm talking, if you were gonna frame it a certain way, it's like a conversation between me and God. It's how I think about it in my head. Now do I feel like I hear things coming back to me? No. Not always. Sometimes I do feel like there's something really strong stirring in me, and I wonder if that's god's voice.

Will Berry [00:12:06]:

But sometimes it's just airing everything out and getting it out, and then I just feel better. Let's say I leave home, and it's tough with children or marriage or it's just been a hard week or finances or whatever. There's freedom, I think, in as you drive down the road, just being honest in silence and saying, like, this is really hard right now, and I don't know what to do, and I don't know how to reconcile it, and I'm scared. And I think owning that out loud to a level, I think there's power just in that. And then sometimes, is there, like, maybe some mysticism for me personally in there? Yes. There is. Sometimes not. Sometimes I think it's just healthy to do that, the talking.

Will Berry [00:12:51]:

And then sometimes I'm silent, and then that's kind of informed by I took a class in my undergrad that was, like a Zen class. We would do 10 to 15 minutes of sitting meditation every class, and the teacher taught us about those traditions and those practices. And since that class, I've always just found a lot of value sometimes in stillness and in quiet and incorporating that into my Christian journey.

Meli  [00:13:22]:

One of my first research interviews, it was with quite a devout Christian woman. She talked about prayer and talking with God and getting answers. So for quite a while after that, I kinda ran this experiment on myself of taking my bicycle rides as the time to try this out. I would do 3 different things because that's what she did, so I was trying her her technique. So I would praise and thank and then ask. I would try to be incredibly specific. Thank you, God, for these beautiful trees. Thank you, God, for my health.

Meli  [00:14:03]:

I can't say I ever heard God say, you're welcome, or, you know, I'm not quite sure what I thought God might say. Do you have something like that? I hear you talk about silence and and saying what is troubling for you in the moment, but do you also praise and thank?

Will Berry [00:14:23]:

Nothing, I think, too structured. I think I'm mindful of when it feels as though my prayer is just asking God for a bunch of things. Right? Like, oh, make this hard thing go away and make our finances easier and make my children healthy and all. It's like, okay. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Because I think at the core of that is the belief that you don't actually believe God can handle this stuff.

Will Berry [00:14:48]:

It's, like, still back on you. You know? It's, like, I'm trying to manage all this thing and control all of it, and, like, God, make it so I can manage all of it. In my belief, it's recentering on he's all powerful. He's all knowing. He loves me. He's a loving god. He loves my family. And, like, how do I, you know, reconcile all that with the things that are hard? The really disciplined parts of my prayer life are sometimes when I don't know what to pray, I do fall back on the things that I have said in church, the lord's prayer, the doxology, these things that are kinda more traditional, more, I guess, ritual based things in the Christian world.

Will Berry [00:15:34]:

I I think there's something powerful for me when I feel at a loss knowing that people have prayed this way for 100 of years. That is powerful to me, and it reminds me too that when I'm faced with something that feels so big and heavy and and challenging that so did they, and they prayed the same way, and that's beautiful. And then sometimes, as a discipline or or kind of a ritual practice, sometimes I literally get on my knees and pray, not always, but I just find that when I'm in moments of feeling like I'm trying to manage all these things and control all these things and wanting all these circumstances to go all these different ways, there's something very surrendering or almost passive about kneeling, and I think that if I'm gonna believe that God is this powerful and this loving, submitting to that power and love through physical posture has been powerful for me. I had a faith leader in my life one time. I had told him, like I I forget what hard circumstance was happening. Sometimes I just feel like I need to be on my knees every day telling God I don't know what to do. And he was like, well, why don't you just try to do that? So I was like, good idea. And I think that it did help my heart in a more, like, posture way and softening of me to be open to these things that I believe to be true.

Meli  [00:17:11]:

Yeah. The physical posture can really have an effect.

Will Berry [00:17:15]:

Oh, I wanna throw in one other prayer thing. There are times too I I think I use prayer if I'm in a really bringing it back to my job, there's been times where I've been in a situation where someone has died, and it feels overwhelming. Like, let's say the circumstances surrounding that death are incredibly tragic. For those that may not know, like, paramedics do this a lot. You hear these stories in the news about, oh, and 10 people died, you know, whether it's a car crash, plane crash, train, shooting, whatever. Well, the paramedic had to be the one to go in and actually say, yes. They are deceased. Someone has to go do that, and that's what paramedics do sometimes.

Will Berry [00:18:02]:

And so when you're faced with this, sometimes I I actually pray in that moment silently to myself almost as a recognition of, like, I can't make sense of this, and this was a human. They had a family, and they were loved, and I wanna just take a moment to acknowledge that, recognize that, and acknowledge their humanity within it. Sometimes I do that just to prevent myself from getting crusty. It's almost like I think the last time we talked, I brought up, a powerful class I took on Martin Buber, who is a Jewish philosopher, and just that there's a relationship there, and, like, it can be I it, which is, like, this dead person is just a thing, or you can turn it into, like, an I and thou, which is like, oh, no. There was beauty here. There was another person here. And I think that there's something actually really powerful in that moment.

Meli  [00:19:00]:

Yeah. And I imagine especially when it's somebody who otherwise we might see as the dregs of society or someone who has actually caused injury to others, to be able to, as a former rabbi of mine said, the spark of God in me sees the spark of God in you. That's what I'm hearing.

Will Berry [00:19:24]:

Yeah. I like that.

Meli  [00:19:26]:

We need to wrap this up, but I just wanna make one more note about something you said a moment ago that has shifted my thinking about this ancient tradition question. When you talked about sometimes saying the Lord's prayer or the doxology, which I will put in the show notes, We had talked about trying to bridge from 2024 to an ancient tradition and using that. How do you derive some kind of usefulness, some pragmatic benefit from something that was created in a vastly different society. I think this can often be a challenge. You know? What these words are weird. They don't mean anything. The social structure is funny. You know? All of that.

Meli  [00:20:16]:

But what I heard you say that's so powerful is really turning it on a TED, that the very fact that the words of the Lord's prayer are so old have been said for millennia by so many people, is actually the power of it. Did I get that right?

Will Berry [00:20:39]:

Yes. And I think unique to the Christian faith is for the lord's prayer specifically, you know, Jesus said, pray this way. I I think there's power for Christians in that. When you don't know what to say, pray this way, father who art in heaven. Right? You're big. You're in heaven. Hallowed be thy name. You're holy.

Will Berry [00:21:01]:

Thy kingdom come. You reign, and I want that the beauty of that kingdom here on earth right now. Thy will be done, you know, on earth as it is in heaven. Make make the beautiful things that are happening in your realm happen here on earth. There's power in exactly what you said. I find strength that it's been said for so long, and I find strength in that Jesus himself prayed that and said, pray this way. Many of sermon have been taught on that and maybe what he meant by that, but sometimes I for my own comfort, I just take it as that literal. Like, hey.

Will Berry [00:21:40]:

Pray this way. When you don't know what to say, do this.

Meli  [00:21:45]:

Talk about practical direction.

Will Berry [00:21:48]:

Right.

Meli  [00:21:49]:

Right? Absolutely. Yeah. Thank you so much for that. Certainly, Judaism and Islam also has those kinds of things where there was direct from some prophet, direct word, like do this. And I think you've made an excellent point that is such a good reminder for all of us that that we need these directives sometimes. Pray this way. Do this. It's not an instant solution.

Meli  [00:22:19]:

It's not guaranteed every time, but it's a practical action and a set of words that you can turn to and find some relief in.

Will Berry [00:22:30]:

Yes.

Meli  [00:22:33]:

Well, Will, thank you for these many practical and powerful words that we have spoken. I really appreciate you coming on my Living Our Beliefs Podcast and giving me this opportunity to hear how your Christian faith shows up at work and how it's a living thing for you. Thank you so much.

Will Berry [00:22:53]:

Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity. It was great.

Meli  [00:22:58]:

Thanks for listening to the second half of my conversation with Will, and make sure to tune into the first half as well. Links to his work and references are in the show notes. This podcast is an outgrowth of my Talking with God Project. If you'd like to learn more about that project, a link to the website is in the show notes. Thanks so much for tuning in. Till next time. Bye bye.