A Jewish Feminist Finds Modern Orthodoxy at College – Aviva Stein

Episode 76.
In part one, we talk about her Jewish practice at UMass Amherst, where she is now a senior. Part two will cover her engagement on campus in support of Israel and the need for bridge building. Given the tensions on many campuses last year around the Israel/Palestine situation, talking to some college students is timely. I am eager to also speak with a Muslim student who can share their experience, so if you or someone you know is interested, please get in touch. You can reach me through my website – www.talkingwithgodproject.org.

Bio:
Aviva graduated from Gann Academy, the Jewish day school in Waltham MA, in 2021, and is now a senior at UMass Amherst, majoring in Food Science. At UMass, Aviva is involved in both the Food Science Department and in Hillel, the campus organization supporting Jewish students.

Aviva serves on various executive boards and committees related to both Food Science and Jewish life, and has earned numerous awards for her work. Most recently she received the 2023-2024 StandWithUs Movement Builder Award for Creativity and Impact, an award based on her deep understanding of the campus climate.

Highlights:
00:00 Modern Orthodox students need place to observe Shabbat.

05:53 Balancing Shabbat observance with secular relationships.

08:52 Disconnecting from phones fosters real-life community interactions.

10:25 Hillel supports Jewish college students' diverse needs.

14:28 Gender roles provide clear, valued community participation.

20:15 Finding other ways to feel valued, contributing

22:29 Valuing everyone fosters belonging across all identities.

Social Media links for Aviva:
UMass Hillel website – https://www.umasshillel.org
StandWithUs website – https://www.standwithus.com
UMass Food Science website – https://www.umass.edu/food-science/
StandWithUs Instagram @StandWithUs and @StandWithUs_Campus 

Social Media links for Méli:
Talking with God Project website
LinkedIn – Meli Solomon
Facebook – Meli Solomon


Transcript:  https://www.buzzsprout.com/admin/1851013/episodes/15736756-a-jewish-feminist-finds-modern-orthodoxy-at-college-aviva-stein


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Transcript

Aviva Stein part 1 transcript

A Jewish Feminist Finds Modern Orthodoxy at College

Méli [00:00:05]:

Hello, and welcome to Living Our Beliefs, a home for open conversations with fellow Christians, Jews and Muslims. Through personal stories and reflection, we will explore how our religious traditions show up in daily life. I am your host, Meli Solomon. So glad you could join us. This podcast is part of my Talking with God Project. To learn more about that research and sign up for the newsletter so you keep up to date, go to my website, www.talkingwithgodproject.org. Today's episode is number 76 and is the first of a 2-part series with my guest, Aviva Stein. In part 1, we talk about her Jewish practice at UMass Amherst, where she is now a senior.

Part 2 will cover her engagement on campus in support of Israel and the need for bridge building. Given the tension on many college campuses last year around the Israel Palestine situation, talking to some college students is timely as the semester begins. I am eager to also speak with a Muslim student who can share their experience. So if you or someone you know is interested, please get in touch. You can reach me through my website, www.talkingwithgodproject.org. And now let's get to my conversation with Aviva. Hello, Aviva. Welcome to my Living Our Beliefs podcast. I'm so pleased to have you on today.

Aviva Stein [00:01:52]:

Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to be here.

Méli [00:01:55]:

We're going to be talking about your experience as a Jew going back to college, but I want to better understand your religious and cultural background. So I know you're a Jew, but can you say a little more about what that means for you?

Aviva Stein [00:02:14]:

Of course. So I grew up, going to a conservative shul in the Greater Boston area. Since going to college, I've really connected more with the modern orthodox community at UMass Amherst. Really, that's the place I can go dobbing on Shabbat, go pray, find community, be able to eat meals during the Sabbath. So, really, right now, my identity is in this flux period as I figure out, you know, where the next step is for me within my Judaism.

Méli [00:02:42]:

Yeah. That's interesting. Maybe we need a new word, religiously fluid. Love that. What is it about the modern orthodox situation that that appeals to you?

Aviva Stein [00:02:53]:

What I've noticed, at least in my experience, is at school, a lot of times the students who are from from a modern orthodox background need a place to spend Shabbat. Right? For those of us who are Shomer Shabbos or kinda follow all the practices of the Jewish Sabbath, we don't use our phones or technology. We don't cook. We don't use, like, light switches, things like that. And so these students, and myself included, it's a space where we can observe the Shabbat the way we'd like to and really need to. Anyone is welcome, and so a lot of other students come and go as they please. But it definitely is this core group of students who really benefit and create the community that they need in order to observe Shabbat the way that they grew up doing or that they'd like to in their current stage of life.

Méli [00:03:40]:

And you used the term there, shomer Shabbos. What what does that mean?

Aviva Stein [00:03:45]:

Yeah. So it literally translates to guarding the Sabbath or guarding Shabbat. So it really means that you follow all the commandments for, Shabbat that were given to us by Hashem by God. There's two terms. It was shomer Shabbat and zachor. So shomer is to guard and zachor is to remember. You're supposed to remember Shabbat and to keep it holy, to sanctify the day. So it's really important to also remember that it's Shabbat and have that intention going into Shabbos.

Méli [00:04:15]:

And you said the laws that Hashem gave.

Aviva Stein [00:04:19]:

Mhmm. A lot of people are familiar with the 10 commandments that were given to Moshe on Mount Sinai in the desert. First few commandments kind of highlight the sanctity of remembering and keeping Shabbat. And then later in some of the other books of Torah, there's a lot of laws talking about kind of what does that mean. An original rule might have been no kindling fire, but now we translate that to mean maybe no light switches or no cooking or no starting, you know, turning on or off things like electronics.

Méli [00:04:51]:

What I'm hearing, Aviva, is is that observing these laws is is meaningful to you.

Aviva Stein [00:04:58]:

Yeah. It really is. I'll say I started when I was younger. It's always been, you know, some weeks I'm better at it than others, and I've really dedicated it and think that I've been doing much better job than I was younger. But for a lot of people, myself included, the first step is maybe not using Instagram or some other form of social media on shabbos, but maybe still using your phone to read a book, then slowly progressing as you see fit. It's not linear. Really, I think for my own personal spiritual journey, it's been kind of the right thing at the right time and not pushing or forcing myself to do something that didn't fit in at that moment. Because I think if you force yourself to do something, it becomes work rather than a transformative experience where you can really grow as a person, as spiritual, physical, mentally, kind of discipline yourself.

Aviva Stein [00:05:47]:

But if discipline becomes work, then you're not gonna do it.

Méli [00:05:50]:

What's the challenge with it?

Aviva Stein [00:05:53]:

I think the biggest challenge that I've noticed over the years that I've been doing this is really not everyone keeps Shabbat, and, also, I'm very integrated in a secular world. So kind of navigating relationships with non-Jews or non-religious Jews, explaining that by 4 PM in the winter on a Friday, my computer's gonna be off. And maybe, you know, 6 PM in the summer, depending on when the sun goes down since all of the Jewish holidays are dependent on kind of the sun sunset and also the moon and things like that. Being open about my needs and saying, I would love to do this for you. I will do it for you Saturday night after Shabbat's over, or can it wait till Sunday, or I will do it today on Friday afternoon even though you don't need it till Saturday because I will not be doing it over the weekend. I think it really helps set healthy boundaries and helps communicate with people. I've noticed that a lot of the group projects I've done, whether it was, you know, middle school and high school or even in college, people, after the 1st few weeks, pick up on it and become really respectful and are willing to work with me on whatever I need as long as, you know, they're getting what they need in the outcome. So, really, I think that's been a challenge, but also really big success in my opinion.

Méli [00:07:10]:

So challenges, but also benefits that you see really in a a week to week basis.

Aviva Stein [00:07:18]:

Some of my friends have since even my non-Jewish friends have since started kind of adapting similar practices in the sense of they might not check their email on a Saturday and really take a break, or they might try and not do homework one day or just take a break from studying. So I've actually noticed that by talking about Shabbat more, I've helped other people find some space in the really just busyness of daily life.

Méli [00:07:44]:

Yeah. And it seems, especially for your generation, which is a digital native generation, discovering that actually taking a break from the electronics, from the social media, and the email, and the telephone can be a good thing and maybe challenging. I know I sometimes find it challenging to I mean, I know it's good. I know I like it. I know I need it, but Saturday at about 3 PM

Aviva Stein [00:08:10]:

Yep.

Méli [00:08:10]:

I'm like, what's on email? And I need to call somebody, and it that's, for me, a challenge. And um is is that sometimes a challenge for you?

Aviva Stein [00:08:19]:

Definitely. For me, by Saturday on 3 PM, I finished the book I'm reading. I need to find a new book. I'm getting a little antsy. In the winter, it's fine because Shabbat is over much earlier. But in the summer, like, I think there is a few nights this week that Shabbat didn't end till around 9 PM, and I was going crazy by, like, 3. But in those moments, it was so important for me to find a new book, to go for a walk, play card games with my family, take my dog, play with her, take her for a walk. I've also noticed, like, like, talking about my friends is that watching them experience this.

Aviva Stein [00:08:52]:

Right? Like, this tech generation is, at first, and myself included, you're like, I couldn't go an hour without looking at my phone. But then you do it, and you don't even notice that the hour passed because you're busy interacting with, you know, the people in front of you. Slowly, you know, an hour can turn into 2 hours or an entire afternoon. It's really important for people who are thinking about taking this practice on is you have to do it in community. You can't do it by yourself. I'm very involved in Hillel at UMass, but I didn't go to Hillel much my 1st year. And being Shomer Shabbos in your dorm room at college is awful. You're there.

Aviva Stein [00:09:27]:

You're reading. You're stuck in a little box, or you go for a walk, but it really is challenging. So once I found the Hillel community and became more integrated, it transformed my Shabbat experience. And I'm just incredibly grateful for that community and for my just acceptance into the community and being able to make Shabbat practice the way I wanna make my Shabbat practice.

Méli [00:09:51]:

For those not familiar with these terms, what is Hillel?

Aviva Stein [00:09:55]:

So Hillel is a very much international group that's started to really help Jewish students on college campuses find communities. So every Hillel is a little bit different. The UMass Hillel is off campus. We are not funded by the university. We're not really funded by Hillel International. It's like a stand alone organization that's part of the collective Hillel International. We really, you know, fund ourselves. We provide support to the students at UMass.

Aviva Stein [00:10:25]:

This past year, we were able to engage, I think, over 1300 students, providing support for students whoever they need, whether that's religiously or secular events. We have daily minyan, so that's, morning praying. Men are in the orthodox community are obligated to go every morning. So 10 men are to make, like, the quorum in a sense, but then women can also pray as well. So we have that every morning, and that's a newer addition to our community because some members of the community needed that. We have so many things, and so it's just amazing to see what's grown out of students' needs and wants and also the way that if a student doesn't see what fits their needs, there's so much willingness to help them create something that'll transform their college experience. So Hillel really is there to help support Jewish college students.

Méli [00:11:17]:

So you mentioned about the minyan, which, again, for those in the audience not familiar, is the 10 that is required to do parts of the service, like saying Kaddish for those who have passed. You mentioned about the the gender aspect, and I'm just curious. You're a woman. I believe you identify as as female?

Aviva Stein [00:11:39]:

So it definitely is interesting because as I mentioned earlier, I grew up going to a conservative conservative synagogue, in Greater Boston area. And at the shul, we count men and women in the minyan, in the kind of quorum. So in this minyan, everyone's participating. We have lay leaders. So it's not just the rabbi leading services or reading Torah from the 5 books of Moshe. So there's a lot of community integration. For me growing up, I have personally read Torah. I've led services.

Aviva Stein [00:12:12]:

I go to the minyan. My mom goes as well. Like, it's I come from a family that has a deep sense of obligation to the Jewish community to go to college where I don't count in a minyan. I think part of me was actually a little liberated because trying to balance that with classes was a little overwhelming at first. But on the other hand, I've been able to find different ways for me to contribute to my community. For example, a lot of times, we will have Shabbat cooking. So because one of the restrictions is to not cook on Shabbat, you prepare all the food, like, Thursday Friday so that you can eat on, like, Saturday Friday night dinners. We have a group of students who does Shabbat cooking probably once or twice a month.

Aviva Stein [00:12:54]:

So really helping with that or helping to make challah, one of my jobs as actually the student kitchen manager at Hillel. So I oversee the food safety aspect and just the cleanliness and shift management. We have to have a which is basically translates to a watcher. And this, that's the male form. The female form will be mashkiha. It's someone who's there and just ensures that the kitchen stays kosher. So ways like that are ways that I can give back to my community without counting in dominion.

Méli [00:13:27]:

I have to say, Aviva, it's it's really interesting and, honestly, a bit surprising that, as you say, not counting towards the minion was a liberation. This is not the feminist liberation of my generation. Would you call yourself a feminist?

Aviva Stein [00:13:45]:

I actually would. I'm in science. I'm in STEM and science, technology, engineering, and math. I'm a food scientist, and I'm really proud to be a woman in STEM. Within Judaism, when I was younger, it always annoyed me that I couldn't be a part of various things and communities if I was female. But now and I realized as I was telling you about what I'm involved in, it's very gender split, and I don't perceive it that way. I think part of being a feminist is also being confident in your own identity, knowing what you enjoy doing. If I enjoy cooking, why should I put that aside? Because that's a quote, unquote female thing, or why should I avoid doing something like science? I would never say don't be a scientist because that's male dominated.

Aviva Stein [00:14:28]:

The same way I would never tell someone don't cook because that's female, like a female dominated kind of mothers, women's, wives type sentiment. I think the biggest thing for me, and I know not everyone agrees with this even in our own community at school, is that for me, I kind of almost love the gender roles because it's very clear what each person kind of where they fit and how they can benefit the community. I think in community, it's really important for everyone to have a role and to feel valued. If we said for sake of argument, you, as a woman, don't count in a minion, but then there's no other way for you to be a valued member of this community, that would be a problem. Right? That is separating. That's almost shutting out an entire gender, an entire part of this community. But on the flip side, we've been able to say here is defined roles, and we have many more that are not in a kitchen at all. We have many, many different roles that women can participate in.

Aviva Stein [00:15:26]:

That's just the one that I'm most active in, so it's kind of on the top of my head. Like, we're able to say, here is your way that you can contribute to the community. So I think, really, respect and being able to value one another kind of helps me. And, again, as I said, I don't totally mind gender roles. I think sometimes if we look in our tradition, there's actually beautiful roles for each gender, and I really think that in the more modern age, that really gets pushed aside, and instead, we should be embracing that.

Méli [00:15:57]:

Yeah. You're saying lots of interesting things. One of the things that that surprises me in what you just said was this business about liking the clarity of the gender roles, which given your generation, right, you're going into, I think, being a senior in college? Yes. Okay. I see your generation as being quite focused on gender fluidity and questioning gender identity and and and that whole arena pushing towards less definition and more fluidity. And you're expressing a completely counternarrative. Am I understanding you correctly?

Aviva Stein [00:16:43]:

Yeah. So, definitely, that's my narrative, and I know that is not the mainstream. It doesn't fit into what we see in mainstream media, what we might see on college campuses. But definitely this is my experience. I think about it more for example, in tradition, it's said that women are supposed to light Shabbat candles to welcome in the Sabbath. That is such a beautiful thing, and I personally love lighting candles, but never does it say that men cannot light Shabbat candles. They're allowed to, but, really, it's a more female dominated thing. The same thing would be like in a minyan.

Aviva Stein [00:17:16]:

If we didn't have any men, definitely women can pray together. They can pray with men. It's just they wouldn't count towards that 10 to say Kaddish for, someone who died or some of the other prayers. So I think it really is challenging. Right? Like, my generation is very, as you said, gender fluid, and I think that's correct. You know, if you walk through college campuses, like, you have to make sure that you get everyone's pronouns correctly. Right, like a she, her, he, him, they, them. I think there's some more as well.

Aviva Stein [00:17:45]:

There's often, you know, within classes, you need to make sure you get someone's name correct, Things like that. And I think that is so very important because that's about each person's identity. The biggest thing for me, and this relates to my work on campus and my work just as a part of society, is really respecting one another. But so I think as long as there's respect there, I mean, mutually, no. I'm gonna respect you and you're gonna respect me. I think that there's a lot more openness and room to grow if we're able to respect one another because that will then lead to a conversation, that will lead to camaraderie, less needing to defend oneself and one's identity.

Méli [00:18:25]:

Yeah. And that's certainly a value that I share. No no argument there. That is not something I'm going to, prod you about. The part that I struggle with in your talking about the minyan and the gender aspect of the minyan according to modern orthodoxy and everything to the right is that women don't count. I am so allergic to that. I do not accept being not counted. That tells me I am not valued.

Méli [00:18:55]:

Now you're saying you're quite okay. It was actually a liberation to not count towards the minyan because it kind of let you out of an obligation. So I'm a conservative Jew. I count towards a minyan in conservative and every, denomination to to the left. That's really important to me. I don't feel obligated to go every morning, but I do go twice a week. And I think it's an important part of contributing to the community, so there is that. But this not counting for me is it sets up a value hierarchy, and that's the part that I find upsetting.

Méli [00:19:34]:

And I just I just wanted to check with you about that because I'm so surprised by what you're saying.

Aviva Stein [00:19:39]:

I totally hear what you're saying, and a lot of it resonates with me. And I think it really is community dependent. So, right, like, my community at home, we both would count at in a minyan. I think that for me growing up, I was very involved. As I've mentioned, I've read Torah. I have led services. I've done other things for my shul. And so and let's say in that shul, if I wasn't able to count towards a minyan and do these things, and there wasn't another way for me to contribute, I would be very upset, very isolated, kind of pushed aside and felt marginalized.

Aviva Stein [00:20:15]:

But that wasn't the case in my home shul. And then I take it to the Jewish community at school. And in that sense, even though I don't count, because there's other ways for me to feel valued and that I can contribute to the community, it's okay. Because I see it as a minion is an obligation, and it's a way to build community. And so if I'm still able to help build that community in other ways and other meaningful ways that are both meaningful to me and meaningful to other members of the community. To me, I'm okay with that. But I also know that not everyone's gonna feel this way. Not everyone's gonna agree, and probably a lot of people are gonna feel marginalized.

Aviva Stein [00:20:55]:

And even at school, this is a conversation that we're constantly having. And so it's, I think, really important that we continue to constantly have this because I also know that not every community is like this. Right? There's many communities where women are pushed aside, and there isn't another way for them to give back. And in my mind, that's not really okay because they are valued members of that community as well.

Méli [00:21:18]:

Yeah. Thanks for saying more about that. I think a keyword in there is value. Are you person x seen as a valued person in that community by others? We see value in ourselves, but in terms of a community, any community, I think value is really about how do other people see you. So in a modern orthodox setting, what I as a woman care about is how are the men seeing me as a woman? Are they seeing me as of equal value? And when I am told you don't count towards a minion, that tells me I am a second-class citizen. I am not valued.

Aviva Stein [00:22:01]:

Yeah. I totally hear what you're saying.

Méli [00:22:04]:

I'm gonna let this go, but I I'm not yet squaring this. I really I do hear you, and I and I'm really pleased for you that you are finding ways that are valuable to you that help you express your engagement in the Jewish community on campus and that you feel valued by the community. This is what I'm hearing. Is is that accurate?

Aviva Stein [00:22:29]:

No. I think that's an accurate you know, I'll definitely say, like, I totally hear and get your discomfort with this because I think if I was in a different position, I too would be uncomfortable with what I'm saying. But for me, as you've mentioned, right, like, valued being valued is such a core necessity for humans and for all of us. I know, for example, we have members of our community who are LGBTQ plus, who are trans, who might not fit into a, quote, unquote, like, gender stereotypical box. And for those members, it's every week is a challenge for them. It's a struggle. And so I know that this conversation needs to continue because everyone needs to feel valued and feel that they belong, whether or not they fit into that box.

Méli [00:23:13]:

This is absolutely one of the challenges of clear gender roles that are binary. Anybody who doesn't quite easily fit or doesn't fit at all into those binary options, It is, as you say, very challenging. I would imagine it's very stressful, and who among us needs more of that? Thank you for putting a pin in that. We are going to have to put that topic aside, and I hope we can come back to it another day. Or maybe you have a classmate from campus who could address that because I think that's really important. 

Thank you for listening. This podcast is an outgrowth of my Talking with God Project. If you'd like to keep learning together and keep up to date on the project, sign up for the newsletter at www.talkingwithgodproject.org. A link is in the show notes. Thanks so much for tuning in. Till next time. Bye bye.