Authentic Muslim Leadership Coach – Sobiya Jawaid

Episode 40. 
As a British coach, consultant, and public speaker, Sobiya helps people in different ways.  The coaching is one:one support mostly around confidence and mindset to help the client reach her potential.  As a consultant, she works with companies wanting to improve their diversity, equity and inclusion, and as a public speaker, Sobiya draws on both her personal experience as a Muslim woman-of-color in the UK, as well as her professional expertise.  She believes that, as a public figure, her authenticity is paired with healthy boundaries.  This balance allows her to handle difficult situations and continue to support her clients.  Her faith in Sunni Islam and the Sufi teachings support her every day. 

Highlights:
·       Being authentic is central to her sense of self and her work.

·       Searching for answers led Sobiya to deepen her Islamic faith as a young adult.

·       She has experienced discrimination as a visible Muslim woman-of-color, so she empathizes with clients struggling with that challenge.

·       Coaching, consulting, and training are each valuable offerings and accomplish different things.

·       You can be authentic and have boundaries.  They are not at odds with each other.


Social Media links for Sobiya:   
Linktree – https://linktr.ee/sobiya.jawaid
LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/sobiyajawaid/
Facebook – https://www.facebook.com/sobiyajaw/
Instagram – https://www.instagram.com/sobiya_jawaid/

Social Media links for Méli:
Talking with God Project – https://www.talkingwithgodproject.org
LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/melisolomon/
Facebook – https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100066435622271


Transcript:   https://www.buzzsprout.com/1851013/episodes/12916278-40-sobiya-jawaid-authentic-muslim-coach


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The Living Our Beliefs podcast offers a place to learn about other religions and faith practices. When you hear about how observant Christians, Jews and Muslims live their faith, new ideas and questions arise:  Is your way similar or different?  Is there an idea or practice that you want to explore?  Understanding how other people live opens your mind and heart to new people you meet. 

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Transcript

Sobiya Jawaid transcript

Authentic Muslim Leadership Coach

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INTRODUCTION:

Méli:  Hello and welcome to Living Our Beliefs, a home for open conversations with fellow Christians, Jews, and Muslims. Through personal stories and reflection, we will explore how our religious traditions show up in daily life – at work, at home, in the community, in good times and in bad.  There is no one-size-fits-all ‘right’ answer, just a way to move forward for you, for here, for now.  I am your host Méli Solomon.  So glad you could join us.  

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Méli:  This is episode forty and my guest today is Sobiya Jawaid. Sobiya is a Leadership Coach, Diversity and Belonging Consultant, and public speaker. She helps leaders to be confident and create diversity and belonging in the workplace so everyone thrives. Sobiya has worked with global clients in a range of fields including film, banking, and healthcare. Besides her career, Sobiya trained in the martial art of Kickboxing for almost a decade and is one of the first hijab wearing, British Muslim Black Belt kickboxers to have represented England at the European level, where she won a silver medal. Being a mum, wife, entrepreneur and soon-to-be author, Sobiya recognises the importance of creating a meaningful legacy. She currently resides in Leeds, England with her family. Links to her social media handles are listed in the show notes. 

Méli:  Hello Sobiya, welcome to my Living Our Beliefs podcast. I'm so glad to have you on today. 

Sobiya:  Thank you so much for the invite Méli. I'm really excited about today's session. 

Méli:  So I'd like to begin with my usual first question. What is your religious and cultural identity? 

IDENTITY:

Sobiya:  My religious identity is that I am a Muslim woman and I follow the faith of Islam. In terms of my cultural identity, I like to refer to myself as a British, Pakistani female. I embrace both the British part of my cultural identity as well as my Pakistani cultural heritage. 

Méli:  And within Islam, which sect do you identify with? 

Sobiya:  Sunni Islam and of the Sunni sect I do have scholars who I follow who inclined towards Sufism, but I'm open to all of the different scholars who fall under Sunni Islam. 

Méli:  OK, thank you. I understand that the Sunni sect is the largest, is that correct? 

Sobiya:  It is. There are lots of different sets and as I mentioned, it's the it's the set that I inclined towards. It's a sect from which I draw my teachings from and as far as I am aware, Méli, I think it is the largest sect. 

Méli:  OK, well this is not an interrogation about the inner workings of Islam. I just wanted to check. And just for the audience, could you just briefly say what is Sufism? How does that fit into the Sunni perspective? 

Sobiya:  Sure. So this is a very personal question and I'm happy to be open about it. For me, Sufi Islam is about spirituality. It's about a very personal connection with God, who we call Allah in Arabic. And it's a very personal relationship, a very private spiritual relationship. And that is something that I feel deeply connected to and inclined to. And so for me it's really about more of the inner spiritual soul connection. And that for me is what Sufism is. It's about worshipping God as though you see Him in the the way you conduct yourself, the way you worship, the way you deal with people. And that's something that really aligns with how I live my life. And that, for me is Sufism. I'm sure there will be people out there listening and they have their own personal interpretation of it, but that's the way I embrace that and that's how I implement it in my life. 

Méli:  Fair enough. Were you raised within Sunni Islam? 

Sobiya:  I would say the key leaders in the family, prominent figures in the family, were inclined towards Sunni Islam. However, I would say that as my family came to the UK and were living their lives, there was a lot of culture there, so I didn't see much Islam. As I was growing up, there were certain elements there definitely, but I saw more of it as I started to step into my mid teenage years and and then go on to my adulthood. As I grew in my spirituality in my faith, I also saw my family, my parents, increasing in their faith as well. But growing up in my formative years, I saw more culture as opposed to faith. 

Méli:  Yeah, interesting. We all have these multiple aspects of our identity and the balance does shift over time and the context and our age and all that. Was there an event that happened? You say you grew into it in your mid-teens and early adulthood. Did something particular happened in that time? What prompted this interest and deepening your spirituality? 

Sobiya:  It was a combination of different factors, as I just mentioned, I saw a lot of culture as I was growing up and as individuals, as independent critical thinkers. There is something that aligns to our essence and we know that that is right. And you know, sometimes refer to that as intuition. I was observing lots of things that were happening around me. They didn't sit very well with me Méli. And these were more informed by culture, but I would say a very patriarchal system. As I mentioned, I'm I'm from a South Asian heritage of Pakistani heritage and I think it was well rooted in that, and I was resisting what I was seeing and I was looking for answers to questions that I had and I wasn't receiving the right information from the people who were the key stakeholders, such as people in my family. And so I started my own search and that's where I looked more into my faith, Islam, and as I learned, the more I started to feel really aligned to what I was learning, not just in relation to women but also in terms of spirituality and learning, more deep rooted elements of my own faith. And that's where my I would say growth occurred. And I realized that actually just because people in my family have a certain way of thinking, a certain methodology, it doesn't necessarily mean I have to also follow that way of conducting myself or living my life. That's where my growth started. I started to go to more traditional scholars who were more qualified, and that's where my understanding of my own faith, Islam, started and developed and progressed. Sometimes, we're not always receiving, but whilst we receive we also give and in my growth, and this also happened with my siblings as well, my parents also and other family members started to grow because they also started to learn more about a different dimension of the faith, which maybe they weren't fully aware of, because they were so engrossed in culture. So it was an evolution for all of us as a family unit over a period of time. 

Méli:  I totally appreciate the search for your own path. Search for the answers to questions that you were not finding, and wrestling with things that you were uncomfortable with. Absolutely. This is often a part of what happens at that time of life. But it is interesting to me that as you deepen your faith and learn from other leaders, you mentioned finding a more traditional path. And I just want to make sure I understand you because you're saying you were uncomfortable with the patriarchal aspect of the Pakistani culture that was around you and yet when you deepened your faith, sounds like you turned to more traditional Islam. Am I hearing you correctly? 

Sobiya:  You are. And it's really interesting how we interpret the word traditional. So from my side, just to clarify, when I talk about tradition, I'm talking about the source of Islam, which is the Qur’an, which is the holy book of Islam, the Qur’an and the Sunnah, which is the practices and the conduct of the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon Him. So when I refer to traditionalists – what I mean is the sources where the Qur’an and the Sunnah and that's where all Muslims take their teachings and learnings from – so for me when I'm referring to traditional Islam, that's what I'm referring to, that the teachers and the scholars who I was learning from were taking their references from these sources and so that is what I refer to traditional. In terms of my culture, when I talk about tradition, it's more about cultural tradition which is which I thought, and there's very beautiful parts of my culture which I just wanted to inform the listeners that I really have a deep sense of appreciation for my culture as I've grown up. But there are also parts of my culture that are heavily rooted in a very patriarchal system. And I'm I'm able to make that distinction now, and as I've grown older. 

Méli:  You're quite right that words can mean different things to different people, and this is why it's important to have these conversations and to ask the questions. So you deepened your faith. You found other scholars to listen to. But also, as you've grown into your adulthood, it seems you've become quite visible. You wear a veil so that you are visibly marked out as a Muslim woman. But you are also a public figure. You were a kickboxer at quite a high level. So these are, you know, unusual combinations and I'd like to understand better how these different aspects fit for you. What is your experience of being a visible Muslim in the UK today? 

BEING MUSLIM IN THE UK:

Sobiya:  As you asked me that question, I'm sat here and I'm smiling and I smile because I've been very fortunate to have a key number of people within my life who've really supported me and one of the earlier questions you asked me was about my identity and I identify as a Muslim woman, as a British, Pakistani woman. For me, that identity is who I am and that is also part of my authenticity, because if I appear as something that isn't aligned to who I am from that, then is inauthentic. And it has been a journey. But it is also part of who I am and my identity and being a public figure and sharing this voice of this intersectionality of different identities, it resonates with my audience and with my connections. Because I didn't see that growing up. I didn't see those role models for me and being a voice for people who do align with my identity, who are, say for instance, females of the Muslim Pakistani heritage born in the UK. There are nuances, there are challenges you face, there are experiences that are very unique because that's just how things happen. For me, who I am now is a complete result of my experiences as well as my support, because I never was made to compromise on parts of my identity or my values that were very important to me. That has a lot to do with the people around me. My coaches, my mentors, my friends, I've embraced all those parts of my identity. And I don't see any shame in that and I see that the more I step into that the more I show my authenticity and as leaders, when you lead authentically, you form deep connections with the people who you are meant to serve and who are meant to receive from you, and you are also meant to receive from them. So it's a two-way process. 

Méli:  Great that you had such support. Not always the case. 

Sobiya:  True, it is not always the case. And in those very critical years where I made the choice to start training as a kickboxer. It's incredibly important to have the right coaches, and I did have a coach who supported me and never made me feel that the color of my skin or the hijab that I will because I did wear it at that time when I was training. It was also around the time where 9/11 took place and there was a lot of stereotypes or misconceptions. A lot of negativity out there. However, in my club, my potential was never hindered because of who I identified as. My coach saw the potential in me, nurtured that, and that allowed me to set high aspirations, set high goals and be supported in the right way. I never would be where I am today if it wasn't for those key stakeholders such as my kickboxing instructor and and coach, and that helped me embrace my identity and be firmer and stronger and more confident in who I was.

Méli:  It is such a powerful reminder of the value, really the critical value of that support, especially early on. Well, hats off to whoever that was. 

Sobiya:  Yeah, Sufal was her name. My boxing coach. 

Méli:  OK, so shout out to Sufal. 

Sobiya:  Absolutely. 

COACHING, PUBLIC SPEAKING & CONSULTING:

Méli:  Shifting our focus to your present activities. You are a coach. You're a public speaker. You are a diversity and belonging consultant. Let’s talk about those areas. How do you see these different roles? They have different titles, but you are the commonality, so maybe they are not so divergent for you and in how you feel about being in these different spaces.

Sobiya:  From a business point of view, they are distinct because the services that are offered as part of the business are distinct. I’m the person who's at the front of all of these services and delivering them. There definitely is an overlap when I am working with clients, but I would say they are quite distinct when I'm working directly with individuals or with organizations or with clients. And that's how I deliver my services. The public speaking is a combination of all of them, because that is me. When I'm delivering my keynotes, when I'm invited as a panelist, that's where I share my lived experiences, my learnings, significant events that have happened in my life that have informed me to be who I am and how those experiences can serve the people who are in the audience and help them in their businesses, in their organizations, in their leadership style. And so I go back to the fact that personal experiences sometimes can be very powerful lessons for other people. You can draw so many lessons from them. They're not just unique to one person. Circumstances may be unique, but you can extrapolate so many different lessons. So there is a combination of different services. And when I deliver my keynotes and my public speaking in terms of my consultancy and leadership coaching, I see them quite distinct. Sometimes there is an overlap. Generally they're quite distinct. 

Méli:  And how are they distinct? Is it different audience? I imagine one is a one-on-one and you know the speaking is to a a group. 

Sobiya:  My leadership coaching generally is one-to-one, and that's where I'm working with CEO's, managing directors, and the areas that I coach around are really about confidence, about impostor syndrome, about showing up in your true potential. So I do a lot of coaching around mindset, around stepping into your full value that you can then serve other people with so a lot around limiting beliefs and and so on and so forth. And it's all about vision and values. There's a combination of different elements in that one-to-one coaching space in terms of my diversity and belonging. Consultancy, that is where I'm talking more around race, ethnicity, around belonging. How do we create that? And so there are elements of mindset there. However, there are also different threads that are involved in that because it's consultancy. 

Méli:  So you mentioned the types of clients you have for your coaching, your leadership coaching. With the diversity and belonging consultancy, do you work with certain kinds of fields, certain kinds of companies? 

Sobiya:  I have a range of different companies that I serve, but the areas that I tend to work on are around race, around ethnicity, around faith inclusivity. Around belonging for people of faith backgrounds, more so around Islam. There's a lot of work that I did last month around Ramadan, informing organisations how they can be more inclusive, how they can be more understanding in relation to Ramadan, how they can make workplaces more accessible for people during the month when they are fasting. So there were different areas, but they are the general areas that I work with when I'm working with organizations around diversity, equity and inclusion. There's been quite a bit of pushback here in the US against DEI, diversity, equity and inclusion training. 

Méli:  Sounds like you're quite busy, but is there pushback? 

Sobiya:  It's a really interesting question because I've actually had clients from the US that have sourced my services for DEI work as well as the UK. So from my perspective with the work that I'm doing, I actually see that the US has an audience that is quite receptive and from my work and my understanding, it's something that is actually at the forefront of many organizations, especially after Black Lives Matter and that pushing this area at the forefront of people's minds and that event then obviously, that also brought a lot of other organisations across the world to think about certain parts of diversity, equity and inclusion within their organizations. From my perspective, I've not seen a pushback. I've seen clients from the US as well as the UK, work with me over the last few months. 

Méli:  I mean, obviously during Ramadan there was a focus on that topic, but over the longer term that you've been doing that consultancy work, what has been the trajectory? 

Sobiya:  When you say trajectory, what do you mean by that? 

Méli:  I mean level of interest and response when you go give a training. 

Sobiya:  I've seen clients being exceptionally receptive. From my perspective and from my personal experience with my clients, more of this, and I don't like to call it training, but more of these topics need to be discussed and also spoken about. But the key thing is in safe, non-judgmental open spaces and that's something that I've seen creating these spaces, because there's a lot of people who do not want to create or cause any upset. This is my experience. What I've seen is that sometimes there's a lot of reluctancy, but there is a need and I've seen the need for this training, this coaching, this consultancy arise more and more because more and more organizations want to get it right.

Méli:  Again, I'd like to address the language front. We've just used several different terms and I want to make sure that we're being clear about the language, so training, consulting and coaching. I appreciate you said you don't like to use the word training. Fair enough, that was my slip. But how do you see the difference between training and consulting? Why is it that you don't like to use the word training? 

Sobiya:  I find training is just imparting information. There's a lot of information that is out there, that's available, whereas consultancy is about you as a specialist coming in. I also like to use coaching as well because coaching is where you create the space safe spaces to challenge people's mindsets. And so there is a distinction between the three. Training is just information parting, and in certain contexts that's great. There's no either or. Just to clarify for the audience as well, I think each of them has a valuable place in a given setting, so it's not that training is completely irrelevant and not valuable. In the DEI space, training can be valuable if it's around something like using the right terms, current terms around race and ethnicity, and these are trainings that I have developed and delivered for organizations. In terms of consultancy, sometimes it's a two-way conversation. It's about looking at the needs, it's about addressing them with the right information, once you've had the understanding with your specialist knowledge and then there's coaching. And as somebody who works with one to one clients, it's about creating safe, non-judgmental open spaces where you can challenge people's mindsets around conscious and unconscious biases. And all of them have a valuable place, but it really depends on the context. It really depends on what you're delivering, and it really depends on what the client is looking for. 

Méli:  Thank you for talking through that a bit. I think being clear about terminology is really important. 

Sobiya:  Absolutely. And thank you for asking me to clarify that Méli. 

Méli:  Given that especially DEI work can be quite challenging for the participants and perhaps for the leader, could you describe a surprising or challenging experience you've had in doing that work? 

Sobiya:  For me what is really important to share from a vulnerable place is that as a person-of-colour, as a person of Muslim faith, I've got lived experiences of discrimination, of racism, of Islamophobia. And so when I'm doing this work, there is an emotional impact because the experiences that others face, whether it's discrimination, racism, I really can resonate. Although the situations may be different, there's a personal connection with that and that has an emotional impact. I can't think of one specific situation, but over the years as I've gone more and more into this work I've learnt strategies to manage the emotional impact of this work on myself and I've learnt to distance myself from certain issues and certain conduct, because whether we like it or not and whether other people speak about it or not, I have personally felt that at times it's been very difficult and has had an emotional impact on me, on my mental well-being, on my well-being. And so for me that is because I have lived experiences of going through certain situations which were difficult for me. So when I see that I empathize with that, but over the years I've learned to develop strategies that help me to manage that, because at the end of the day, this work is meaningful work, but it still is work and you can't take it so personally. And and I say this to my clients as well. You are leaders that there has to come a point where we set boundaries, and those are the boundaries that I've implemented that have helped me manage my work.

AUTHENTICITY & BOUNDARIES:

Méli:  Earlier you spoke of the importance of authenticity. And just now you spoke of the quite understandable need in, perhaps particularly DEI situation, to set boundaries and not take it so personally, set a bit of distance. It does feel that these could be at odds with each other. Or is there a balance to be had between the authenticity and protecting yourself by keeping a little distance? 

Sobiya:  It's a very good question and I have never seen them being at odds to each of them. Because authenticity is about you being your real and true self and sharing in a real authentic way. However, it doesn't mean to say that when you have boundaries and you distance yourself from certain situations which are having a negative impact on you that if you set boundaries and you you you place the distance between what the negativity is and yourself, you're being inauthentic. I don't see them being at odds to each other at all. I actually think it's absolutely imperative that if you're going to lead effectively, you have to have strategies to deal with negativity, your challenges, the difficulties, the things that hold you back or get in your way, and setting boundaries is essential in being able to step into yourself, your full potential. So you can lead, but authenticity can still be there.

Méli:  What I sense in that answer, Sobiya, is that the rootedness, the surety that you feel in your identity, the Pakistani background, your faith in Islam. And your coaching and consulting and leadership skills then allow you to be authentic and protect yourself, but have some vulnerability and to help others do the same. Is that a fair representation?

Sobiya:  I would say that's fair. I would say that's fair. And I would also say that who we are today doesn't define who we are going to be in the future. And this is something that my coach has coached me around as well, is what I say today is valid based on my experiences, my understanding, but as I grow, as I develop my views and my thoughts will also evolve. So based on my experiences with my clients, with my conduct, I definitely believe that what you've just shared is a great summary of how to lead effectively because I don't believe that to be authentic, you just are there a freefall for everybody just to take a a part of you. Because if that is the case and you're taking negativity, how can you then deliver value to others? How can you then lead people who are looking up to you? It's about leading in a healthy way.

Méli:  Leading in a healthy way. That's a nice way to phrase it. I've also just been remembering a term I heard years ago at an entrepreneurial conference. It was about leadership, the speaker said he saw himself as a servant leader, and that comes into my mind again. Do you see yourself as that or do you encourage, do you does that come up in your coaching with leaders? 

Sobiya:  It does. And one of the key things I say to my client, regardless of what work I'm doing, is that I'm here to serve you powerfully. And that's informed by my spirituality, and that's informed by where I gain value from is by serving. I have also learned about servant leadership. It is an element that resonates with me, but it's not because by itself, the concept is something I align to. I think it also feeds into my faith. Servitude is about bringing value to others, serving them powerfully, giving them what they need with boundaries. As I go back to the earlier conversation, it's about boundaries. It's not about just serving and absolutely giving your all to other people. Because I go back to that analogy, you can't pour from an empty cup, so it's important to know what replenishes you, what keeps your cup full so that then you can then serve others powerfully as well. 

Méli:  And part of what fills your cup is your faith. So in these closing moments, Sobiya, I'm wondering about a time when your faith or practice supported you. 

Sobiya:  It's a very deep question. And in a very open space, my faith supports me every single day. I pray every single day and I have a connection with God. And I believe that that connection my prayers help me to be a better person. And when I'm a better person, I'm a better coach, I'm a better mother, I'm a better person within the community. So for me, my faith helps me every single day. It helps me set my morals, my values. It reminds me of why I do what I do. I'm very driven by my vision. My vision is about contribution. It's about serving people and that is an impact that really drives me. And it's most certainly is informed by my faith. And I always use this analogy that when you drop a pebble into water, the ripples go far and wide and sometimes you don't see those ripples. And for me, that's part of my legacy. But that legacy also is informed by my faith, because those ripple effects – for those people who are listening who are from a faith background who do believe in the hereafter – those ripples don't just stay in this lifetime, they go into the hereafter. 

Méli:  Are there particular Islamic values that are quite strong for you? 

Sobiya:  Honesty. Integrity. Trust. These are some that are coming to my mind. 

Méli:  Honesty, integrity and trust. Words to live by. 

Sobiya:  Absolutely. 

CLOSING:

Méli:  So as we close, is there anything else you'd like to add, Sobiya? 

Sobiya:  It's been a a very deep conversation, a soul-stirring conversation Méli. Thank you for asking me some soul-stirring questions, and it's been an absolute pleasure and I hope that what I've shared can bring some value to the listeners. 

Méli:  Absolutely. I'm so glad to have been able to have you on my Living Our Beliefs podcast. Thank you so much. 

Sobiya:  You're very welcome, Méli. Thank you.

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Méli:  Thank you for listening.  If you’d like to get notified when new episodes are released, hit the SUBSCRIBE button. Questions and comments are welcome and can be directly sent to info@talkingwithgodproject.org. A link is in the show notes. Transcripts are available a few weeks after airing. This podcast is an outgrowth of my Talking with God Project. For more information about that research, including workshop and presentation options, go to my website – www.talkingwithgodproject.org.  Thank you so much.  Till next time.  Bye bye. 

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